The Voice Podcast
The Voice is the official podcast of United University Professions, America's largest higher education union. We spotlight our hard-working members, and issues that are important to them and others who believe in a strong effective union.
The Voice Podcast
A Conversation with National Wildlife Federation President and CEO Collin O'Mara
In this episode of The Voice Podcast, UUP President Fred Kowal talks with National Wildlife Federation President and CEO Collin O'Mara. Kowal, who hosts the podcast, is chair of the NWF's board of directors.
O'Mara discusses how he became the NWF's president and CEO and what led him to the post. He and Kowal talk about the intricacies of navigating political channels to protect and preserve the nationwide organization's conservation efforts and move its agenda forward.
They talk about organized labor's role in conservation and enviromental efforts and discuss the NWF's collaboration with unions and union organizations, including the Blue Green Alliance.
O'Mara also strongly supports UUP's fight against proposed SUNY cuts to faculty and staff and important environmental, conservation and forestry programs and facilities at SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry. The following are O'Mara's quotes regarding SUNY ESF:
- "Yeah, I mean, you know, you're getting me fired up on this one, because I sort of revere ESF, like, I mean, it's the best public school, you know, environmental program in the country, and not put on par with anybody. You know. It's absolutely, bar none."
- "We need leaders in from ESF in every agency in state government and every agency in federal government. And so the idea of contracting right now, especially as the state is trying to argue that its a leader on cutting climate action, and given some of the other things that have happened last few years, you can't win the future unless you have the talent to actually be there to meet the moment in the future right now."
- "And we're seeing this across the board, right? We're seeing the disinvestment in public institutions, you know, across the country, and it's not specific to New York. But of all the areas to disinvest and not invest in, the folks that are gonna help solve the climate crisis and biodiversity crisis in this moment and also create the jobs and the opportunities of the future is just absolutely ludricrous."
O'Mara became the National Wildlife Federation’s president and CEO in 2014, overseeing America’s largest wildlife conservation organization, with 52 state and territorial affiliates and more than 6 million members and supporters. Founded in 1936, the organization is one of the nation’s most influential conservation groups.
It also publishes the beloved “Ranger Rick” magazine, which O’Mara read as a child and says spurred his lifelong interest in conservation and protecting the environment.
From serving as captain of his high school baseball team to running for governor in Delaware in 2024, O’Mara’s rise has been swift and sure. And he’s showing no signs of slowing down anytime soon.
Hello. I'm Fred Kowal, President of United University professions, and this is The Voice. The Voice Podcast theme song plays here.
Mike Lisi:The Voice Podcast is a production of United University Professions, the nation's largest higher education union, representing more than 42,000 academic and professional faculty and retirees at state operated SUNY campuses across New York State. UUP also represents employees at SUNY system administration and SUNY public teaching hospitals in Brooklyn, Stony Brook and Syracuse. I'm Mike Lisi.
Fred Kowal:Our guest today is National Wildlife Federation president and CEO Colin O'Mara, before becoming the CEO and President of NWF in 2014 Colin made a name for himself in his hometown of Syracuse. Colin graduated from West Genesee high school and earned his master's in public administration from Syracuse University. He worked as a staffer for former Syracuse area Congressman James Walsh, and earned the title of whiz kid from the Syracuse newspapers for leading at the age of 23 a computer based Efficiency Initiative at Syracuse City Hall. He also served as executive director of the Onondaga County Democratic committee at Syracuse University. He was a university Fellow at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs in 2009 he was appointed to lead Delaware's Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control. He became the National Wildlife Federation's president and CEO in 2014 overseeing America's largest wildlife conservation organization with 52 state and territorial affiliates and more than 6 million members and supporters, founded in 1936 the organization is the nation's leading conservation group, from serving as captain of his high school baseball team to running for governor in Delaware in 2024 o'mara's rise has been swift and sure, and he's showing no signs of slowing down anytime soon. Collin, welcome to The Voice.
Collin O'Mara:Thanks, Fred. I'm thrilled to be here.
Fred Kowal:Full transparency, I started in June in a new role. I am the chair of the Board of Directors of the National Wildlife Federation. I've actually been on the board for nine years. It's a voluntary position for those of you listening who are UUP members. No, it's not affecting my so called day job, besides the fact that actually the reality is, Colin and the staff do all the hard work. I just showed up for photo ops. But anyway, Colin, it's great to have you on really looking forward to this conversation. Going back to your early years in Syracuse, what would you point to that steered you in a direction of conservation work? Was it experiencing the outdoors with your family. What was it about that that then also led you in a direction of an interest in politics? Because it's really both that come together in your career, especially now,
Collin O'Mara:yeah, I mean, I think for me, Syracuse, it's just a great place to grow up, in addition to the incredible seasons and everything. But you know, you're, you're five minutes from, you know, the city, with all the attributes that the city offers, but you're also kind of amazing around amazing nature and Finger Lakes and so growing up fishing and hunting and just being outdoors all the time, there's a story I tell. I think you've probably heard me tell many times about the Ranger Rick experience with monarch butterflies and having my mom mail away for the packet of milkweed seeds, and I was planting them and seeing the plants come by. But I'll say that the experience that really, again, solidified my commitment to both the economy and the environment was to clean up on Duke lake. So when I was growing up, Onondaga Lake was the most polluted lake in the state and maybe the country, by some measures. There's a big fight over, you know, was Honeywell going to clean it up after they acquired the assets from the subsidiaries that had gone away. And being a kid with this huge lake, if you're driving by all the time, you're going to the fair, you're going to the dome, you're going by, whatever you see it all the time. You can look, but you can't touch right, because it was so polluted. Flash forward a few years, when I was working for Jim Walsh. You know, one of his big goals was trying to have more federal funding to clean up the Superfund site element of it, kind of the public piece of it, and pushing on the companies. So Republican doing that, pushing into a good environmental steward. Then I was working for a Democrat and Matt Driscoll when he was mayor. Also, you know, the big fight then was, in the cleanup plan, was it going to be a series of waste, wastewater treatment plants on the south side and the, you know, in historically, you know, underserved communities, they were already facing big environmental justice issues. You know, we didn't call it that at the time, but that's really what it was. And you had, you know, the Republican county exec at the time basically saying, you know, just keep all the pollution in the city. Like, don't have it still under the neighborhoods. And so it was one of those fights where it's like, oh, like, not only we suffering from a legacy of jobs that have been gone for decades in that point and the pollution, but you had an asset that if you could revitalize, it'd be great for the ecosystem and great for, you know, wildlife, but it also is great for the community. And so kind of being at the front end of that thing, it's now no place was a beautiful Lake Trail you can actually go fishing, push any too many, too many of them still, but you know, there's offspring overhead, there's bald eagles, you'll see it inspired on me what is possible by remediating some of our natural resources and got me hooked. Yeah.
Fred Kowal:And you know, you mentioned in your discussion about that cleanup, both parties engaged, and we all saw that, right? I mean, you know, growing up actually grew up in a household where it tended more Republican. I grew up in Massachusetts, but it was, it was a legacy of progressive, environmentally oriented Republicans, and in looking back, what was it that made it click whereby you could get both parties to agree that this was something necessary that needed
Collin O'Mara:Yeah, I think, I think it's there's kind of, what to be done. I call it, kind of a patriotism of place, right? Like, regardless of party lines, like folks all cared about, like, the local natural resources, you know, for the city, was like, Well, why do we have all these folks visiting Skaneateles or Kyrgyz night or, you know, or going up to Oswego, right for the lake, and when they have a beautiful lake here, like, if you clean it up, could be an amenity. And so it wasn't partisan in a real way. And, you know, one of my favorite things was watching Matt driscolls work on, you know, fighting against the proposals to kind of decimate the city as part of the cleanup project. And then having joining Mahoney make that a priority when she was running for county executive as a Republican. So all of a sudden you had this, like, you know, continuity for a greener strategy, to clean it up, instead of just a bricks and mortar, you know, kind of 1950s strategy, but it was focused on place and not based on party, and it was, and there's also just giving a vision for what could be instead of what always has been that folks could rally around. And I think, you know, it's just, it's one of those great examples that taught me that if you can keep it focused on, like the vision, right, and not like the partisan dialectic, you can all of a sudden, kind of bring people together in a in a real way, to get big things done. And that was a half a billion dollar cleanup, probably more than that. Now, yeah, but, you know, everyone was all on board because, you know, the there was a aspiration for what it could become. And, you know, not just a lake next to a mall.
Fred Kowal:And I have a suspicion, you know, when you cut through, I mean, it's difficult today, in today's world, but I think when you see what in the example that you gave, that even in today's climate, that kind of politics of place can still resonate and get through and in our conversations, obviously, in NWF, we've talked a lot about the coalitions we've built working with both parties on protecting public lands. Do you see a similar kind of echo in that, in terms of a defensive place and the importance specifically, like on public lands? I know I lived in Montana for a while, and party doesn't matter. Those lands are vitally important for those of us who hike, who fish, who hunt, all of it. It's so vital to that place.
Collin O'Mara:Yeah, yeah. I have a friend that was a former governor of Wyoming, and he tells a story about how, you know, the hardest thing he had to do as governor was typically visiting the families of fallen soldiers from various overseas, you know, conflicts in Afghanistan. And I react during his tenure. Then he said he goes to a person, there wasn't a single, you know, example, where they didn't bring out a picture of the soldier in nature, right? On public lands, enjoying the outdoors. And I think when it's built into our psyche like that, right, all of a sudden it isn't partisan. And so when somebody in the Senate proposes selling, you know, multiple millions of acres of public lands, everyone immediately is gravitated to like the place they care about, because it was, wasn't specific. And so a lot of places were at risk. And so all of a sudden folks that voted for different people for Senate or president or things like that, were joining common cause. There was a there's a rally in in New Mexico, and it's a great sign. And it said tree huggers and rednecks united for public lands, right? Yes, there's a similar thing in Missoula. Was the hippies and the gun toters. And so I'm really proud of the National Wildlife Federation, sportsman heritage, because I do think that the sportsmen led the men, women led the but the defense of our public lands. But it's because it was local. It wasn't about the president, it wasn't about party. It was basically saying, like, Don't let these places be turned into development. Because once you lose them, they're gone forever. And I think when you have that, both the incredible threat, it's not, it's not fear mongering. It was, it was a realistic proposal to sell multiple millions of acres of land, and they visceral love. You know, it's fine, because some of our colleagues were like, No, we need to talk about the hundreds of millions of acres that are at risk and this and that it's like, no, no. We didn't talk about the place where they shot their first elk, right, the place they caught their first cut through, and having it be hyper, hyper local. So again, so it doesn't get caught up in the culture where it doesn't get caught up in the
Fred Kowal:Exactly. I was just out in Buffalo for the labor day parade and the usual route through Montezuma right, which I just loved that drive. And every time I'm through there, it's like, I gotta stop. I gotta stop. You know, in New York State, a lot of the focus is on the Adirondack Park, justifiably so, great step in preserving wildlands Catskills and. My impression having lived now in New York State, for God, I don't know, 40 years, it strikes me that there isn't as much of an awareness of the federal lands like the wildlife refuges that are in New York State. Do you see that in that in some eastern states, there's more of a, I'll put it this way, an attachment to lands elsewhere, like in the West. You know, people in the Northeast want to go out and got to go out the Yellowstone, got to go out the glacier and all that. Not as much awareness of the great lands that can be visited here, for instance, in New York State, that are federally preserved.
Collin O'Mara:Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think the work of Roosevelt and others preserving the Adirondacks. And I mean, basically they got to conservation of public lands before the Feds were heavily involved, right? So the Adirondack Park precedes the refuge system, right? Precedes most national parks in the country. Catskills, same thing. I mean, I think the state parks in New York are on par a lot of national parks and other places, just because the state protected them first, and a lot of other places they would other places, they would have been federal. Obviously, in a state like New York that had more private land ownership than, you know, then Western states had, there weren't as many opportunities. But monism is good example. We were, I was taking the kids to sea breeze, you know, couple months ago, driving across from from Syracuse towards towards Rochester, and we stopped just for a little bit, and we saw a nesting pair of bald eagles. And so I was like, hey, we'll just run over. Just run over really quick, and there's some more dancers and shuttlers and, like, whatever. It's just the wetland complex is great. It was funny, though, because, like, you know, some of the folks in the car with us, they had no idea that it was there right driven on 90 1000 times, idea that it was right there. So I think, you know, one thing I'd like to talk about is, how do we promote public lands more broadly. So doesn't mean federal lands, it just means, you know, publicly available spaces. Most of the lakes in New York, right, are public, right? Even though I think there's some shoreline issues in different places. You know, when you think about the amazing experiences that are within, like I said, 1520 minutes of every major city, and, you know, the five major cities up in New York, upstate New York, or, you know, in different places, like, everyone's got nature close by, um, even here in East New York City, right? Jamaica. But Jamaica Bay is incredible. You got to the island, and there's a bunch of places that are, are incredible. I think we could do a better job branding them. It's been such a federal fight because of, like, ownership issues and, like, you know, sell off and all these kind of things that I think folks take it for granted. But like, it's not, it's not just everything I was, I would just go up in New Hampshire and, you know, the public lands, the mountains, like the Presidential mountain peaks and all the stuff that you know we do with the Mountain Club, just spectacular. You know, again, it's folks talk about a little differently, but it's still just, it's, it's our it's the benefit of all the people, as Roosevelt would have said.
Fred Kowal:Exactly. And it's something that obviously we can pass down and like you're doing with your kids, I did the same with my sons. Is introducing them to wild places, and even at early age to be able to talk about, yeah, maybe when they're 10, whatever 11, start talking about the fact, yeah, this is the public's land. This belongs to everybody. And this is something that generations before us did kind of to inculcate the idea that this is an obligation we have for those who come after us.
Collin O'Mara:Well, one of my favorite stories, is the Catskills where, like, you know, you're the two competing veterans around New York City saw it as a source of the freshwater drinking supply. Instead of building a bunch of treatment plants, they just had to pick the Catskills the part of this. Rather, not a lot of folks realized that there was competing proposals for a ton of development in the cat skills to build a whole bunch of like, subdivisions for folks that were going to jet in down 87 or whatever. Yeah, and that was the competing proposal the New York City actually got bit up in the pricing before, for the protection of that land, because they're developers and want to develop it. I mean, imagine in New York state without the Catskills, yeah, yeah, right, or having just, just 10s of 1000s of housing units all scattered throughout it, you know, like other places in the country. So these are these choices, and I think we take them for granted, right? You know, it takes courage of the time. And I worked for a governor in Delaware, they used to say, you know, they're not gonna remember our names, but they remember our names, but they remember the places that we say, and remember, like, you know, the experiences that they had. I think that's the business we're in. We're in the, you know, the experience business to make sure folks can have that connection to nature at a time when more and more folks are more disconnected from the natural world.
Fred Kowal:You mentioned your time in Delaware. You were what, 29 when you became the head of the Delaware Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control. A lot of words there. So what did the job entail? How did you get it? And, God, I mean, you know, you're 29 maybe that's a good age to do, because you figure, right? You know everything and you're going to solve all the problems. What was that like? Don't have to accept the job, right? Like that was in it.
Collin O'Mara:Delaware is a small state, has basically all the natural resource agencies in one group. Or New York, you'd have Dec separate from NYSERDA, separate from, you know, the parks and the Adirondack commission, all that stuff. And so in Delaware, it's basically all of the EPA, all of the departments here, all of the Department of Energy, all the Army Corps of NOAA, all in one, one shop, which is fantastic. And it had been an agency that had had faced some challenges. I mean, Delaware, for its small size, has, you know, one of the bigger refineries on the East Coast is the largest chicken industry in the in the East Coast now you also have some of the most amazing tidal wetlands and best beaches, by far in the state. And so you kind of have all the challenges of like the East Coast industrial economies, as well as some of the rural challenges. As you might face in the south, and so regulating it is and kind of managing it, it's a challenge because for the most part, a lot of the work in the past been seen as zero song. And so I'm working for the mayor of San Jose. At the time, I was supposed to go to law school out in California, and decided, driving across a buddy of mine's father in Mishawaka, Indiana, said, like, Well, why do you want to be a lawyer? And I realized I didn't really want to be a lawyer. So I got to Stanford, I realized I didn't actually want to practice law, so I ended up working for the mayor of San Jose, who was just elected. And San Jose was fascinating because it was a place that had such a strong economic driver, government's almost an afterthought. I mean, just like the economy so strong at the brink of, like, the kind of clean tech revolution, a lot of the innovation, especially in like, solar and advanced renewables, happening at that same time. And so the the Mayor's Challenge to me, was trying to come up with strategies to take advantage of that, to make sure there's jobs created kind of good paying jobs created in in the area, not just the tech, not just the R D jobs, with the actual production manufacturing jobs. And then also use that as a way to build out the parks, build out, you know, the cleaner air, cleaner water, more recycling, and all the all the basics. And we built this thing called the Green vision. The interesting thing is that Mary, I worked for a guy named Chuck Reed, was a decorated World War or a decorated Vietnam veteran, and he was a fighter pilot who hated to fly. And so he would get all these invitations to talk about the work that he was doing and didn't want to go. And so you sent me on all these different places. And I was like randomly at the in Tarrytown, New York, at the Rockefeller estate, speaking about what we're doing in San Jose and some lessons for other cities. And there's somebody in the crowd that was a was presenting on what Delaware was aspiring to do. It was close to this incoming governor, Governor Jack Markel. And then four months later, I get this random call in my office, hey, thing you want up on this list? Because some speech you gave, trying to come in and talk to us about it. And so that was the beginning of my experience in Delaware, which is, you know, quite the move, quite a quite a difference from going from the heart of Silicon Valley to to the great State of Delaware, the first state.
Fred Kowal:And having traveled a lot there, my son spent a lot of their growing years in Delaware, and I used to have to go downstate for the baseball tournaments and stuff Delaware. And for, you know, obviously a lot of our listeners probably don't realize this, it is an incredibly diverse state, and so small, and yet, the difference between the urban north and the wealthy suburbs, almost in a way, connected to Philly. And then you head south, and you know, you get down into southern Delaware. It's very rural. And, yeah, it's agribusiness, the huge chicken production facilities. How did you manage the plethora of issues you had to address in your role, given the political differences, political culture very different between North and South Delaware and the diversity of issues such that Delaware could maintain a healthy environment for everybody.
Collin O'Mara:Yeah. I mean, the nice thing is, I worked for a governor who ran against the machine, ran against the system, and won, and so he didn't owe a lot of people. And so that gave us the ability to actually, like, be more innovative, and not just kind of fall into the normal kind of zero sum approaches that I think, you know, kind of challenged the environmental movement. In the past, I had an incredible deputy, guy named Dave small, who was just brilliant, who just, yeah, I spent my first week there, just traveling every inch of the state, you know, every all 20 miles of it, trying to really get to know everybody on the ground, every every legislative district, every Senate District, and really trying to see everything firsthand and gig in the kind of process the talent. The other thing I did is, I don't like bringing a ton of folks in from the outside. I think there's just incredible talent inside of organizations. And so I inside, inside dinner, I started asking around, like, who are the people people go to to fix things, when the Secretary screws things up, when the it's a bad budget decision, like, who's the fixer? Then I promoted all those people. I made all those people my division directors. And so all of a sudden I had the folks, and it's not a signal, right, that like folks that had had experience in the agency were going to be listened to. They're going to have a real voice folks, while they had their champions in their work. And there's it was funny. I think the fear of me coming in so young with that that kind of know it all right, like, what? Like, I just listened right? And 90% of the solutions are the biggest problems, kind of vexing the state our team had these. No one was listening to them to actually implement them, or what they weren't resourced appropriately, or whatever. And so I view my job as basically surfacing the best solutions that they had, and then resourcing to make sure they can get done. And what we found is, pretty quickly, we were able to reduce air pollution more than any other state in the country, percentage wise, just by solutions that were already on the books, most of which the industry actually supported with a little bit of kind of partnership over how to make some switches to different fuels or different kinds of pollution controls. The work of the agriculture. A lot of it was like technology improvements, as opposed to just more heavy handed regulations, investing in the beaches and our resilience. So when Hurricane Sandy comes along four years later, we don't get decimated the way the jersey did and right across the bay. And so it was, but it was just having trust in the expertise, right? And having trust in people, and not assuming, you know, everything coming in, going to see it yourself. Don't always show up to be briefed on paper, be briefed in the field. And just kind of having that just a more servant minded, more humble leadership style where, I mean, it's funny, because I think I was brought in for, like, all these new ideas, and like, I of course, have plenty of ideas, but what I realized when I got there is just empowering others to actually implement the things that their expertise has led them to know for years, and actually having. That the way we get big things done. And so again, it wasn't perfect. I made plenty of mistakes, and most mistakes for me, checking my own, choosing some things, but we were able to make progress because we listened.
Fred Kowal:Do you think, let me put it this way, was the interest in National Wildlife Federation in that position, when it became open and you were going for it? Was it a case where you wanted to move into the arena of NGOs and influence national policy, or was there a reach out to you, given the success you had in Delaware? Well, it's because you're still young at that point, and no, you didn't come from a biologist background. So what was that dynamic, like, because, you know, it's a big shift from, you know, a policymaker to NGO.
Collin O'Mara:yeah, it's funny. I was, like, the kid that had, like, the five year plan in college, like, when did this, when do this? And, like, it all went to hell when I didn't go to school, right? And so, I mean, I had been asked to consider different positions, like the Obama administration and some other state things, and none of them kind of them kind of felt quite right. And I really loved being in Delaware. And then I got a call out of the blue, the on the National Wildlife Federation job. And it's funny, I've been kind of a National Wildlife Federation adjacent for my entire life, right? Going back to Ranger Rick, I did a ton of our state affiliates, and the affiliates in adjacent states for always, some of my best partners on projects and things. And so I get this call out of the blue from Shelly Cohen, who was on the board at the time, and she had been doing, you know, some she does kind of real energy work, and some things around energy efficiency, so I knew her kind of socially a little bit, but she's like, Hey, it's like, I saw this picture of you, like, you know, with sea turtles doing a Sea Turtle Rescue. And I was like, You're probably too young, but like, you know, and you haven't really done the NGO thing, but like, Would you be willing to have a conversation with the board about this position and and just completely out of the blue. And so the board had already gone through 98% of their process that point, you know, the great Bruce Wallace was, was leading the transition. And I kind of went in with just trying to learn more. And it was funny. So I come in, and I thought was there for like, a more of a discussion about, like, the position, and like, you know, it turns out the full blown interview I got, like, the murders row, of like, you know, 12 people that, like, it was fascinating, right? And I think, and I mean, I love the Federation, and kind of always have, but I'd never been, you know, on the staff side, we have this conversation about the affiliates and the conversation about different things. You know, the great Ken Salazar was really curious about affiliate relationships, and I was one of the few that actually knew the affiliates and all the different places, just from different my work in the region. Then one of the board members from Montana is one of my favorites. I was like, this is all great, but he's never raised a dime, right? He's He's never done philanthropy, and the Federation was in a pretty big financial hole at the time then. So another friend of mine, the Montana the Secretary of Natural Resources, the Director of Environmental Quality, was able to allay concerns. But no, it was completely serendipitous, right? It wasn't based on, like, a strategy. It wasn't like a headhunter. It was like, literally, a board member saw a picture and was like, picture. Was like, oh, like, this kid could be interesting. Like, it's really outside the box for somebody that's not just on the DC bubble.
Fred Kowal:That's fascinating. So when you arrive, it's in the Obama years, and then Donald Trump is elected his first term, and then Biden's serves his four years, and now we're into Trump. You know, some refer to as a pendulum. It's almost worse than that in terms of these massive shifts, and at the same time, you're coming into a huge organization that has a great reputation across the political spectrum. What kind of adjustment was that for you right from the start in leading this massive organization? As you said, yeah, there were some financial challenges, but then as things go on, and like I said earlier, I joined a board in 16, we're going through this whiplash of leadership. How do you steer that course, just to maintain the stability of the organization? And I will testify to that so our listeners can understand it, that organizations can get through these big swings in what's happening at the national leadership level. How did you experience it, first, when you were coming in, and then you have to deal with it.
Collin O'Mara:The one thing that the board didn't share kind of fully was the state of the finances, how deep the hole was, and that we were kind of raiding our reserves as a way to, you know, kind of keep the endowment as a way to keep the organization going. But that also just found incredible people, right? Just absolutely, just absolutely, just incredible, incredibly talented folks. And I think there's a challenge in DC where it's easy to become, like, just federal, you know, I used to, I used to say that, like, the National Wildlife Federation doesn't mean federal, and kind of climate and then, you know, kind of, as an organization, it actually means, like, nationwide, right? It gets to be in all 50 states and the territories and all the great work of the regional level. It's got to still center wildlife, like wildlife and people, right? It can be kind of equal measure, but there has to be a focus on wildlife, because that's our unique niche, and that what makes us different is the Federation. And so in some ways, it was kind of getting back to our roots, to get to kind of prepare us for the future, was the idea. And, you know, I wanted to make sure that we were squarely focused on the wildlife, the biodiversity crisis, climate crisis, absolutely, but the climate crisis with solutions that aren't going to harm the natural world, there's such a push on technology that, if we're not careful, that we can put a lot more species even further at risk by just displacing one technology for another, and if ways that aren't cited well or kind of thought through, and then we're focused on people, right? And. Now we focus on talking very explicitly about environmental justice, but it's this focus on making sure that communities that are just trying to make sure they can breathe clean air and breathe clean water have a place and a voice of their own, voice in the movement. And I saw pretty quickly that our role, because of our history and also kind of our approach to things, was as much being like the bridge between groups, and trying to show how movements fit together to do big things, trying not to just to be an appendage of like the Democratic Party, but really trying to show how these things are non partisan, or they should be at a high level, and maybe not all the regulatory pieces, but anything investment based, at least anything voluntary, should be non partisan. And really trying to show that there's a bigger hole that we're part of right, not part simply of like the sportsman groups or simply of like the sportsman groups or simply the environmental justice groups, or simply the green groups, or simply the land trusts, but that all those groups actually have a ton in common in terms of the outcomes they want. They talk about it differently. The reasons they talk about it are different. We also have a lot of overlap with other groups, other industry associations, that they need access to clean water or clean air, access to a well trained workforce, or tourism related to wildlife watching or hunting or fishing or something, and so we spent a lot of time trying to, like, kind of distill, like, what our role is. And I think that helped lead to a lot of fundraising opportunities, because it made us appeal to a broader swath of the population and also to foundations. It allowed us to operate with almost equal effectiveness in Republican and Democratic administrations, while still calling balls and strikes fairly when we disagree with some of the Biden administration, we said it. We said, No, we don't. Same thing with it with the Trump administration, we tend not to be make it as personal as maybe some other groups, even though there's a lot to get frustrated about. But my I view our job is making progress every inch we can every day, regardless of the politics, regardless of the composition of the Congress or the state houses, or whatever, the scientific imperatives demand that we do better, that we do better every day. And I think having that as a as kind of an organizing principle, it just serves really well. And one of my former colleagues, one of my favorites, used to say collaboration is our brand. And, you know, I just think it's the old adage that, you know, overused, but it's, you know, if you want to go far, you know, if I don't want to go fast, go alone. If I go far, go together. We gotta go far right now. The challenges are existential in a lot of ways, and we need to bigger tense, I mean, things that can transcend the partisan divides and the regional divides and the racial divides. And that's I mean, just we've been ripped apart for decades now, and very much the last few years. And so we want to be one of the groups that can stitch people together to still do big
Fred Kowal:Yeah, and as you talk about coalitions, obviously, this is a union podcast, and you've been central in the blue green Alliance, and that work, and something that has also featured our national affiliate, American Federation of Teachers, aft, led by Randi Weingarten. And I'm involved in that work, so I'm kind of in both worlds. Do you see progress in unions and conservation organizations or environmental organizations working together? I think there are some isolated moves where we can make common ground. So I would ask you, where do you see progress? Where do you still see stumbling
Collin O'Mara:Yeah, no, it's a great question. And like, I mean, I'm a union kid through and through, right? Like, I want to be able wouldn't be able to go for college if my mom was a blocks? member of the teacher the teachers union, and when she was a public school teacher. And my dad actually was with UA for a little while before he went into the military. I come from Irish, right? So I got cops and firefighters, fop and, you know, everything else I go through the ranks. I got IBEW cousins and all that kind of stuff for me, like the movements actually put together beautifully. And, you know, because the same conditions for worker safety inside of a steel workers organized facility for health and toxics are the same pollutants are going to affect, you know, the critters outside, and the folks at hunting fishermen. So there was a great vision by Leo Gerard, who's the longtime head of the steel workers, to bring this together Carl Pope, who was the head of the Sierra Club at the time. And the goal was to focus on things you agree on, right and so, and when I think about the house of labor, no, obviously, a lot of align with the teachers, a lot of alignment with with SEIU and service workers, a lot of alignment with ask me where I get most excited to work with the building trades, though, because I just think, like we have to rebuild the country. We can put a ton of folks at work.
Unknown:And a you We got to rebuild the energy system. We got to build out transmission. We got to transform the transportation system. Hopefully do it all in the way that enhances why enhances wildlife populations and not diminishes them. But, I mean, those are the tough conversations, right? And I think, you know, I tend to be more of a technology optimist, where I want to push the guards of, you know, what we can get for cleaner energy, but also for pollution controls, and, you know, everything else, there's a ton of work in that. I mean, I'd love all those projects to be PLAs and make sure everyone's working under the best possible working conditions. And robust apprenticeship programs, and really be thoughtful about, you know, responsible contracting and all the different ways to do it, right? But anyway, someone who's kind of lifted into the middle class by unions, you know, if we can also, you know, lift up the country and make our country more resilient and make our country have cleaner energy and all these additional benefits, it's just a win, win. And so when there's a leadership change at the Sierra Club, and the blue green Alliance was looking for a new co chair. I was actually flying to the steel workers. Suggested that I beat the guy. But it's a fascinating space to have these conversations that you don't have in many places, right? Like folks just end up kind of, they have their corner, bite the other corner, and it's kind of zero sum. Somebody wins, somebody loses, where what we saw in like the inflation Reduction Act and the bipartisan infrastructure. Ship bill is working really closely with like with nap to the national the North American building trades unions and all the member companies, we're able to make great strides right on climate and infrastructure simultaneously, right on energy and on reducing pollution simultaneously. Still a lot of work to do. We're doing it right now on permitting, trying to figure out smart ways to improve our permitting system. Because it's just we can't get good things done either. I guess it's just kind of, we've kind of created a block to be able to move things and at the same time make sure communities have unfolded, making sure we're not destroying habitat in the process, and all the other things. But I'm really optimistic, and I think there's obviously, you know, fights that occur over pipelines and different things. You know, I'd rather have a new, updated pipeline, in many cases, that's going to be safer than an old one that's could rupture. So I'm not quite as far to the left to some of my colleagues and organizations that are trying to stop things all the time, but at the end of the day, I mean, I still feel like, you know, we're stronger together. And, you know, I think when the when the labor movement, the conservation movement, and, you know, EJ movement, and sportsmen and all they're saying, saying the same thing, you can move mountains, time, it's connected to those places where those individuals regardless of what the politics of the day are, yeah. in the apprenticeship programs might want to take their families to hike, might want to go boating, might want to hunt, might want to fish. Do you see that as a potential?
Collin O'Mara:Yes, absolutely. And we're doing some of it already. So I mean, it's, you know, it's estimated at least 75% of folks in the building trades and manufacturing trades either have hunting or fishing licenses. I mean, like the old map is just massive, and folks that just enjoy the outdoors on the weekend after working hard all week. And so, yes, I think there's also, we've been working with some of, like, the pathway to apprenticeship type programs and the and kind of the LEAP type programs trying to get folks ready for apprenticeships, that kind of pre work to get on, you know, kind of in the queue, you know, one of the things that we're finding is that a lot of apprenticeship programs, or pre apprenticeship programs, want to have their members, know, like, what they're building for, right? Like, so understand the energy system a little more, understand different types of technology, understand the types of jobs that are going to be available, especially as they're making the decision, like, do I want to join UA, or do I join IBEW? Or do I want to join the iron workers or the Boilermakers? Kind of thinking through the, you know, the different opportunities, and then by having PLAs on some of the projects, right, we guarantee that pipeline of actual work. I know, no pun intended. So I think it's beyond just nature. I think it's actually, you know, helping folks know the opportunities that exist, giving you some additional opportunities. Kim Martinez, who does a phenomenal job with our education programming. It's not just k 12 anymore, right? It's kind of case, kind of K through your lifetime, and just focusing on the kids who are in college and all the green campuses and all that kind of stuff, which is great, but also folks that are ready for the workforce and ready to kind of get into those programs and giving them away, to both have a great salary and good benefits and great training and do some good at the same time. And that's a pretty good value proposition for a lot of folks right now, and better than having a ton of debt for some folks. So yeah, exactly
Fred Kowal:One of our institutions that you know well, where we represent is College of Environmental Sciences and forestry, and we do have some concerns, because some programs are being eliminated. It's an institution that just, you know, they turn students away, because especially today, there is such an interest in ESF into programs there. Where do you feel higher education in an institution like ESF? What kind of role does it play going forward as we face what in NWF is referred to as those three areas of concern, the two crises, the biodiversity crisis, the climate crisis, and then issues around environmental justice. Where do institutions of higher ed? What role can we continue to play, hopefully going forward?
Unknown:Yeah, I mean, you know, you're getting me fired up on this one, because I sort of revere ESF, like, I mean, it's the best public school, you know, environmental program in the country, and not put on par with anybody. You know. It's absolutely bar none. And when I was at Maxwell School in my fellowship there, I did a bunch of classes that were cross lists of ESF with some of the great faculty there. It's where you prepare the leaders of tomorrow, right? And I think the thing that's interesting about ESF is that, especially given this intersection with like Maxwell, Maxwell School of Syracuse, is that you teach folks not just the foundational science, but how to apply it, how to actually create change. And I think that's like, one of the biggest weaknesses we have right now as a movement is that the economists speak a foreign language. The policy folks are so kind of insiders speak. It's hard that scientists can't talk to talk to anybody. And there's, like, there's a lack of folks that can translate across disciplines. The thing that ESF does better than anybody else is kind of explain. Is the why, not just the how, right? So all of a sudden, you're taking an environmental economics best one class, and then connects the why the energy system incentives are creating these Pigovian externalities, right? And kind of the role of, kind of how different market signals or not, and kind of dictate, you know, certain decisions like you come up with a more well rounded view of how to affect change in real way. It makes you more dynamic, right? It's why they everybody that graduated from ESF get snatched up immediately, because they're so valuable compared to other places. And I was in Arizona recently with Michael Crow as the great president of ASU. I was a very controversial figure, but one of the things that he said, he goes, Okay, goes, I don't want 7000 kids to get a great education. I want 70,000 kids to get a great education so I can change the world. And it actually kind of put a and someone who went to Dartmouth and Oxford in these different kind of fancy places, it actually was kind of a light bulb where it's like, if we have a great institution, let's move as many folks through as possible, you know, having their staff support and the professional ranks to support that. But like, why wouldn't we want, you know, as being kids going through in this moment in particular, given the crises that we're facing that have that, you know, kind of a unique ability. And yes, there's a prestige factor, you know, having smaller classes and all that kind of thing. But like, We need leaders in from ESF in every agency in state government and every agency in federal government. And so the idea of contracting right now, especially as the states trying to argue that they're a leader on cutting climate action, and given some of the other things that have happened last few years, you can't win the future unless you have the talent to actually be there to meet the moment in the future right now. And we're seeing this across the board, right? We're seeing the disinvestment in public institutions, you know, across the country, and it's not specific to New York, but of all the areas to disinvest and not invest in the folks that are gonna help solve the climate crisis and biodiversity crisis in this moment and also create the jobs and the opportunities of the future is just absolutely ludricous.
Fred Kowal:And you make an excellent point a lot of them there. But one is that the attacks on the public sector. You know, lot of focus on the present administration in DC, but the attacks on the public sector go way back. You know, in our experience in New York, it wasn't a Republican. It was it was Andrew Cuomo. And you can go back and make the argument, it was Mario Cuomo, where this thing got started, in terms of attacking the public sector. It's non partisan. But what we have to do is get back to the idea that the public sector is crucial for the well being of our society. We're up against the clock, but I wanted to give you a chance. You're a hopeful guy, I have to admit. And you've heard me say this in our meetings, that that I have a tough time sometimes staying hopeful. What do you say to our audience as to what fuels your hope for the future given the crises that we're facing?
Collin O'Mara:Yeah, I mean as far as you know, I'm a girl dad, right? I got little ones. I got a two year old, an eight year old and a 13 year old. We have no choice but to succeed. I mean, like the apocalyptic alternative is just like unthinkable, and so that's what keeps me up. And I've also seen folks that disagree on everything come together on things. And there's a story I often tell about Jim Inhofe, who was a senator from Oklahoma, who's one of the biggest climate skeptics probably to ever serve in the US Senate, and when the chips were down late in the congressional session, we were trying to get help the city of Flint get some funding to replace the lead pipes, and we had this meeting. And now the mayor kind of spoke out eloquently and made the case beautifully about why they needed it. And she talked about the impact of lead on kids brains and the whole thing, and the Senator said, I'll do it. And there was this kind of hesitation, you'll do I'm like, you'll do what. He's like, they're all God's children. There's my kids. I wouldn't want their brains to be polluted, so we'll find the money. And there's somebody that most of the environment community had just ridiculed for years, right, for being on the wrong side of things. But in that moment, there's a humanity that came through, right? They're basically saying enough. No kid should have to drink dirty water and have their brain, you know, contaminated. And I've seen the same thing like mercury pollution and pollution, again, these episodic moments, but they give me hope that they're still good, right? They could be done, and can bring people together, and we're in it right now, right? I mean, the attacks on offshore wind, the different outcome, attacks on Climate Foundation, climate science, but at the same time, you know, there's communities across the country that are saying, like, look, I we were ravaged by this hurricane last year, or this forest fire got so much worse, or I don't want my public land sold. I mean, so we're beginning to transcend politics. These folks are seeing the consequences of inaction or insufficient action. Is probably why I should put it, and that's what gives me hope. Because I do think that what breaks us out of this kind of current US, them, kind of division of the country, is getting back to like, what folks care about, right? Their family, their community, the patriotism place that I mentioned, this idea of, like, the love they have for their community. And if we can win those conversations, you can still move mountains. And we're seeing different places like we were to save a bunch of money in the reconciliation package for, you know, agriculture, right? For conservation and wildlife on private lands. I mean, the public lands fight was a big public fight. And again, it's not enough to overcome some of the bad things that we're seeing, but it's laying a foundation for the big things when those opportunities present themselves, you know? And I think one of the big lessons for me for the last few years is that a lot of the environmental movements focus is historically been on Democrats, and understandably, Democrats have done great allies on things, but you know, it's going to raise a Syracuse fan, right? You live by the three, you die by the three. There's there's a challenge when you put all your eggs in that basket. And then there is the trifecta Republican public control like we're seeing now, a lot of it gets torn down pretty fastly, and probably pretty fastly. And so one of the things that I'm focused on is that durability. And so how do you use those glimmers of hope to build a durability that actually allows us to make sure that it's not just the whipsaw, you know this, I agree. It's not a pendulum. It's swinging too fast for a pendulum. It's like a sort of banana please, or something kind of coming at us. It's to make. Sure that we're not in the crosshairs for that all the time, because there's enough support on both sides where folks like, hey, just leave that alone. And we saw the public lands right? Cofounders, like, selling again, I was like, no, no, that's not a rail. We want to touch. We don't want to make that the third rail. That's what gives me hope. And so I encourage all your members, you know, like, it's just don't give up on anybody, right? Like, we got to convince folks, and it's hard. It's organizing, it's boundaries, I know we started. It's basic organizing on the ground, you know, block by block, still talking to folks, because, you know, we can't write off half the country if we want to make progress for all the country.
Fred Kowal:Yeah, this great way of closing our conversation. And I think it relates to our work, where, when we fight to save a program or save a campus, or, you know, last year with the fight at downstate save a hospital, it's about the communities and the progress we can make in those communities that can make a huge difference in the lives of people and move us forward. Colin, it's been a pleasure. Enjoyed it very much, and thanks for joining us and sharing your wisdom and experience.
Collin O'Mara:Thanks for having me, and thanks for all your members do good stuff. Let's save ESF!
Fred Kowal:Yes, absolutely. Very good.
Collin O'Mara:Thanks, everybody,
Fred Kowal:Thanks.
Mike Lisi:Welcome to Labor Lookback where we take a look back at labor story past, from strikes and uprisings to dynamic union leaders and huge union wins, we'll cover it all. Here's a look back at labor history from the month of September. From strike breaking thugs wielding bats to battalions of armed lawmen brave union workers, especially those in the early 20th century, routinely put their lives on the line for basic job safety protections and fair wages. Such was the case in late August and early September of 1921 when some 10,000 armed West Virginia union coal miners squared off against 3000 police company hired ruffians and anti union vigilantes dubbed the Logan defenders in what is now known as the Battle of Blair mountain, part of the coal wars. The Battle of Blair Mountain is one of the largest union uprisings in American history. Things got ugly quickly. Nearly 1 million rounds of ammunition were fired during the week long standoff, which took place in Logan County, West Virginia. US President Warren G Harding called in the West Virginia National Guard on September 2, and the confrontation came to an end two days later, but not before, Don Chafin, the notoriously anti union Logan County Sheriff, decided to drop bombs on the workers. Literally decided to drop bombs on them. Chafin recruited private pilots who used their planes to drop as many as four homemade explosive and gas bombs on the miners. No one was killed by the bombs, which were filled with nuts, bolts and shrapnel and leftover World War One gas shells. It marked the first time in US history that American citizens were bombed on US soil by private aircraft. As for Chafin, he was roundly hated by union miners. We'll hang Don Chafin from a sour apple tree. Was a popular miners song back then, when the federal troops arrived, the miners quickly gave up their guns and surrender. Many of them were veterans, and they refused to fight against the government. Nearly 1000 miners were indicted for murder and treason, but most were acquitted by sympathetic juries. The clash and bombing illustrated the power and brutality used by coal companies and their supporters to put down unions in the early 20th century, it also brought national attention to the horrible working and living conditions of miners and the acute need for change
Music: Battle of Blair Mountain by David Rovicsc:at the Battle of Blair mountain,
Music: Mill Mother's Lament:we leave our homes in the morning, we kiss our children goodbye.
Mike Lisi:Ella Mae Wiggins worked as a spinner at American mill number one in Bessemer City, North Carolina, in 1929 her life was hard. By age 29 she had given birth to nine children and lost four of them to malnutrition and disease. Her husband, an alcoholic, deserted Wiggins and her kids in 1926 leaving them to live in wages of$9 a week, which was earned by Wiggins, but she believed in the power of being in a union and. The power of music. A talented singer and songwriter, Wiggins wrote about the difficulties of being a single working mom in songs like the big fat boss and the workers, two little strikers and the mill mother's lament. Folk legends Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger performed her songs and Seager recorded the mill mother's lament when nearly 2000 workers at the Loray mill in Gastonia, North Carolina, went on strike in April 1929 Wiggins joined the National textile workers union, which represented the striking workers, and she joined them, convinced that being in a union was the only way to make a better life for herself with her children, Wiggins spoke at rallies and joined picket lines. A few weeks after the strike began, most mill workers, harassed by the mill owners and their hired mill thugs, went back to work, but about 300 workers, including Wiggins, set up on the outskirts of town, picketing and holding union rallies. Police raided the camp in June 1929, the town police chief was killed in the altercation. Wiggins further infuriated the town's elite by encouraging black labor leaders to join the strike. On September 14, a truck Wiggins was riding in to a union rally was ambushed. Pregnant at the time, she was shot in the chest and was killed. No one else on the truck was shot, leading many to believe the ambush was actually an assassination. Five men were charged with Wiggins murder. More than 50 eyewitnesses testified against the men, but the jury found them not guilty after deliberating for just 30 minutes. On the 50th anniversary of her death in 1979 the local chapter of the National Organization for Women erected a marble cross on her unmarked grave site. The cross read, she was killed carrying the torch of social justice, September 14, 1929 for UUP Labor Lookback. I'm Mike Lisi, and now here's Fred with
Fred Kowal:Thanks Mike. Well, hopefully you enjoyed today's interview with Collin O'Mara from the National Wildlife Federation. Know what people have gone through in this Kowal's Coda. country to make it better, to make it more in line with the principles articulated in the Declaration of Independence. We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator to certain unalienable rights among these, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And yes, I did say men. I used the original wording because in those days, for Thomas Jefferson and for the Rebels, American rebels, to say that all men were equal was considered insane, because the general perspective was, men are not equal. There are those who are wealthier, more endowed with property and thus better, never occurred to them to consider gender not yet, although Abigail Adams made sure that her husband, John Adams was aware of the necessity for gender equality as well. Now what's all this leading to? It's all leading to one of the most phenomenal books I've read over the past couple years, written by Pulitzer Prize winner David Zucchino. It's called Wilmington's Lie. be where our nation is going if we are not vigilant, good night and good luck.
Mike Lisi:The Voice Podcast is a production of United University professions. You can find UUP on Facebook, Instagram, X and blue sky at UUP info. UUP is on the web@uupinfo.org This episode was produced by Mike Lisi, communications director for UUP. UUP director of administration, Lynn Alderman, is associate producer. The host of the voice is UUP president, Fred Kowal. You can download the voice podcast theme for free by going to United University professions.bandcamp.com, thanks for listening. You